What does music know that metal don't? - crafthaus2024-03-28T08:53:50Zhttps://crafthaus.ning.com/forum/topics/what-does-music-know-that?commentId=2104389%3AComment%3A147796&feed=yes&xn_auth=noMany points of view are comin…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-09:2104389:Comment:1502332010-11-09T15:28:01.935Z2Roseshttps://crafthaus.ning.com/profile/2Roses
Many points of view are coming forward here on the subject of metal arts education, which is a good thing. One one end of the opinion spectrum we see that European arts educators are adamant that business curriculum is taught as part of the program. On the other side of the pond, we are are postulating whether Universities have any responsibility whatsoever to prepare students to make a living in their chosen field. Could this disparity of conviction and direction be related to the dwindling…
Many points of view are coming forward here on the subject of metal arts education, which is a good thing. One one end of the opinion spectrum we see that European arts educators are adamant that business curriculum is taught as part of the program. On the other side of the pond, we are are postulating whether Universities have any responsibility whatsoever to prepare students to make a living in their chosen field. Could this disparity of conviction and direction be related to the dwindling interest in and support for Metal Arts Programs in the US? "attacked for it within our f…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-06:2104389:Comment:1496872010-11-06T21:20:06.959ZMichelle Pajak-Reynoldshttps://crafthaus.ning.com/xn/detail/u_3hhgyycmqnl8s
"attacked for it within our field"<br />
<br />
Sad, but true....If I had a dime for every nasty thing that been said about my choice to pursue an MBA over a MFA I wouldn't have to worry about tuition.
"attacked for it within our field"<br />
<br />
Sad, but true....If I had a dime for every nasty thing that been said about my choice to pursue an MBA over a MFA I wouldn't have to worry about tuition. I agree with you that self-re…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-06:2104389:Comment:1496682010-11-06T16:03:51.275ZMichael Dale Bernardhttps://crafthaus.ning.com/profile/MichaelDaleBernard
I agree with you that self-reliance (as a skill or subject) is important! Great point! Empowering a student to feel comfortable with his/her skills and direction, in the face of uncertainty, is way more rewarding and fruitful than telling a student what to do next!<br />
<br />
Many times students are overwhelmed by all the topics that Andy mentioned above (CV, bios, photoshop, slide photography, etc.). All those professional skills add up and anxiety causes younger artists to feel like it is too much for…
I agree with you that self-reliance (as a skill or subject) is important! Great point! Empowering a student to feel comfortable with his/her skills and direction, in the face of uncertainty, is way more rewarding and fruitful than telling a student what to do next!<br />
<br />
Many times students are overwhelmed by all the topics that Andy mentioned above (CV, bios, photoshop, slide photography, etc.). All those professional skills add up and anxiety causes younger artists to feel like it is too much for them to handle or figure out. When you separate the tasks involved in "professional practices," most of them are simple and common sense, like making a business card, or finding an online template to help you build a good looking resume. It is only when you see it as a pile of stuff (that is not art making) that it becomes a monster!<br />
<br />
Almost all students have access to (or are required to take) some sort of professional practices class. The hitch is that they are often taught in an inter-disciplinary setting with painters sitting next to ceramists. The info is not exactly tailored to the individuals needs. I try to spend one on one time with our metals majors to get them to relax, think about how the info applies to them and their field, and to approach this professional preparation ONE STEP AT A TIME! There are courses around that…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-05:2104389:Comment:1495702010-11-05T21:24:58.992ZAlejandro Sifuenteshttps://crafthaus.ning.com/profile/AlejandroSifuentes
There are courses around that artist/student could attend . Like continuing education, business schools etc... The universities do have a responsibility but it shouldn't be absolute. I have been at R.I.T.<br />
in N.Y. teaching a workshop for there metals program. I covered business ethics and money from a business point of view and an esoteric or spiritual perspective . They asked for it ( the students and faculty).R.I.T. does offer there students a business course. I found that these young people…
There are courses around that artist/student could attend . Like continuing education, business schools etc... The universities do have a responsibility but it shouldn't be absolute. I have been at R.I.T.<br />
in N.Y. teaching a workshop for there metals program. I covered business ethics and money from a business point of view and an esoteric or spiritual perspective . They asked for it ( the students and faculty).R.I.T. does offer there students a business course. I found that these young people have many questions about busines and are concerned about there future. Our relationship with money and as it applies to business/life/relationships is very important, yet it is surprising how many people and students are clueless. The success of a society is improved when self-reliance is taught and nurtured . All of us have a responsibility to mentor those who have needs. Interesting.... My first ques…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-05:2104389:Comment:1495632010-11-05T18:25:48.199ZAndy Coopermanhttps://crafthaus.ning.com/xn/detail/u_1x7et3r1cw1ud
Interesting.... My first question would be "Is there a direct analogue in the field of jewelry and metalsmithing for the "music industry"?" (And by "music Industry" do they mean the market driven or marketable side of music--sales--as opposed to the pure pursuit of music: music as Art?)<br />
<br />
I think that it is the responsibility of the academic institution to offer some sort of "Professional Practices" curriculum. This need not (although it certainly can) include the nuts and bolts of book keeping…
Interesting.... My first question would be "Is there a direct analogue in the field of jewelry and metalsmithing for the "music industry"?" (And by "music Industry" do they mean the market driven or marketable side of music--sales--as opposed to the pure pursuit of music: music as Art?)<br />
<br />
I think that it is the responsibility of the academic institution to offer some sort of "Professional Practices" curriculum. This need not (although it certainly can) include the nuts and bolts of book keeping and tax codes but would address the wider aspects of conducting oneself in a professional manner regarding submitting work for publication or exhibition, constructing a resume, cv, bio or artist statement, possibly applying for grants, putting together a presentation, image making (documentation) or even basic photoshopping. Ideally, I think, a Professional Practices curriculum would expose students to the possibilities for employment within the field, although I no longer believe that this is an absolute responsibility of a university.<br />
<br />
Andy This just was posted on Craft…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-05:2104389:Comment:1494162010-11-05T14:42:19.485ZTwigshttps://crafthaus.ning.com/xn/detail/u_twigsandheather
This just was posted on Crafthaus.<br />
<a href="http://crafthaus.ning.com/group/lede?xg_source=activity" target="_blank">http://crafthaus.ning.com/group/lede?xg_source=activity</a><br />
<br />
This is a great example of what "indie" is and what we can do to keep art and craft alive and thriving.<br />
Even in this bad economy, people in her community supported her venture, kids are learning to be creative and the gallery space is part of the plan to help stimulate the economy. Awesome.
This just was posted on Crafthaus.<br />
<a href="http://crafthaus.ning.com/group/lede?xg_source=activity" target="_blank">http://crafthaus.ning.com/group/lede?xg_source=activity</a><br />
<br />
This is a great example of what "indie" is and what we can do to keep art and craft alive and thriving.<br />
Even in this bad economy, people in her community supported her venture, kids are learning to be creative and the gallery space is part of the plan to help stimulate the economy. Awesome. I think it's time to go back…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-05:2104389:Comment:1493772010-11-05T12:45:57.808ZTwigshttps://crafthaus.ning.com/xn/detail/u_twigsandheather
I think it's time to go back to a grass roots type of learning... I didn't attend any school for what I do. I had the drive to find out information about what I can do with my creativity, my inventory and just did it. No school debt involved, no one to blame. My sister and business partner are teaching her kids to love art, to also be creative and spread that knowledge in ways like getting involved in after school activities. If they won't or can't teach these things at a school level, then…
I think it's time to go back to a grass roots type of learning... I didn't attend any school for what I do. I had the drive to find out information about what I can do with my creativity, my inventory and just did it. No school debt involved, no one to blame. My sister and business partner are teaching her kids to love art, to also be creative and spread that knowledge in ways like getting involved in after school activities. If they won't or can't teach these things at a school level, then donate your time to help people learn what you know and maybe you won't feel the need to complain about what isn't being done . You can look at what you are giving back, and be proud of what you are doing to make art and craft survive. ( I think this suggestion is tough for the "old school" people because they may think that they have already paid their dues, kids are grown and time to retire)<br />
<br />
The country is a mess, but there are people who are very driven to be successful as artists and crafters these days. I see them at the indie and fine art shows that I do. Me and others I know have moved with the times. Not every one can be a "fine artist" or wants to be. I do feel as though I am an artist, I am running a successful business (with a great support system, like family and friends) and I am giving back to my community, teaching (in baby steps) my town and the kids in it to love art and be creative.<br />
<br />
What's missing on a college level, I don't know... I just wanted to make the point that people like me are trying to keep art and craft alive and I think it's working. (plus let's keep in mind that it's never been easy to be a working artist, educated or not.) At one time, "instilling an a…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-04:2104389:Comment:1493542010-11-04T22:49:20.885ZMichael Dale Bernardhttps://crafthaus.ning.com/profile/MichaelDaleBernard
At one time, "instilling an appreciation of culture and the was [also] a fundamental part of..." being a nurturing parent who exposed their children to art, music, cinema, etc.<br />
<br />
Just like so many subjects, parents are asking Universities to turn poorly prepared students into stars. A great architectural achievement requires a solid foundation. When I get students in a metals class that have no idea what a drill is for or what a Jacobs chuck is or can't measure out a piece of material to 1.125"…
At one time, "instilling an appreciation of culture and the was [also] a fundamental part of..." being a nurturing parent who exposed their children to art, music, cinema, etc.<br />
<br />
Just like so many subjects, parents are asking Universities to turn poorly prepared students into stars. A great architectural achievement requires a solid foundation. When I get students in a metals class that have no idea what a drill is for or what a Jacobs chuck is or can't measure out a piece of material to 1.125" because there are no decimals on a ruler and they can't convert to fractional measurements.... well, you can see how one might have to spend some class time on more remedial subjects than how to market finished products.<br />
<br />
A University is not "responsible" for educating students. A student is responsible for their education. Too often people treat post-secondary education like a shopping experience. The customer is not always right, because they are students, not customers. It is our job to take a student and make them better, to the best of our abilities, within a 2-3 year window. We are a pit-stop on the road of life. It is the students responsibility to understand that life itself is an educational experience and the only way to learn exactly what you think you need to know is to go out there and put yourself in places that will teach you those things.<br />
<br />
The best educational opportunities for understanding the business end of the field is through interning, being a production artist's assist, working a bench job, etc. You know, working your way up, baby steps, learning from those that already learned the hard way, insert other cliche phrase here.<br />
<br />
Please just use caution in making blanket statements about the "failures" of Universities.<br />
<br />
Realistically, and I am being <u>very</u> frank here, the problem with "generations of graduates who don't have the business skills to know how to...." and Kate Jones' posed parental inquiry, is that many students in Art programs really should not be there. If there is a failure in the University system, it is that many students breeze through programs without ever being told that they don't really have talent. If you are artsy, and you complete the work, you get a degree.<br />
<br />
If you are not also clever, ambitious, determined, and truly creative, you will never be able to justify that degree. Any artist practice is essentially a small business. If you don't have the gusto, it is not gonna happen no matter how much education you get!<br />
<br />
Also realize just how many differences there are between Revere Academy and any public institution. Revere can do and teach anything they like. One could just as easily raise a commotion about how little a graduate of Revere learns about Literature, History, or Biology. You are comparing apples to oranges here.<br />
<br />
Even the comparison to music in the first place is rather broad. "What does music know that metal don't?" Well first and foremost, they know how to take a single creative act (singing a song), capture it, replicate it, and then market millions of copies around the world. It is going to take a long time before rapid prototyping gets us to that level in metals!<br />
<br />
Regarding money. I am not suggesting that more money is the solution alone. But seriously, art, music, and drama programs have been suffering from cutbacks for decades. You just can't keep taking away and then expect more. If every year a program gets less money, how can it stay current?. You can't tell me that the cost of a course at Revere is the same as 10 years ago. Prices go up. What if you told Revere that it had to survive with tuition income cut 30%? I bet some programs would be cut, some new equipment would remain on the wish list, some instructors may not be returning. This is the same problem as when a state government cuts funding to a public university. Michael, we think you have fa…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-04:2104389:Comment:1492442010-11-04T14:30:59.500Z2Roseshttps://crafthaus.ning.com/profile/2Roses
Michael, we think you have fairly well defined exactly how and why Universities have failed us when you wrote:" They simply reflect a sub-par level of perceived importance that the culture of the United States places upon Art, Music, Theater, Dance..." At one time, instilling an appreciation of culture and the arts was a fundamental part of a liberal arts education at all Universities. Universities have failed the arts in their responsibility to educate generations of Americans in any kind of…
Michael, we think you have fairly well defined exactly how and why Universities have failed us when you wrote:" They simply reflect a sub-par level of perceived importance that the culture of the United States places upon Art, Music, Theater, Dance..." At one time, instilling an appreciation of culture and the arts was a fundamental part of a liberal arts education at all Universities. Universities have failed the arts in their responsibility to educate generations of Americans in any kind of appreciation and understanding of the arts. Universities have failed the arts by turning out generations of graduates who don't have the business skills to know how to capitalize on the technical abilities they have acquired.<br />
<br />
Nothing points this out more clearly than the comment made by Kate Jones in this discussion. "the number one thing parents (who usually pay the tuition) ask about college fine arts programs is 'what will my son/daughter do when they graduate?"<br />
<br />
Your solution of higher taxes and tuition simply does not hold water. Throwing more money at a failed system is will not fix it it. Its bad business. Make arts curriculum a viable career path that gives graduates a running chance at making a living at it and watch things turn around. That's precisely what the music programs are doing, across the nation, across all genres of music. This is, by far, not localized to Southern California.<br />
<br />
In the metal arts, the Revere Academy turns out eminently employable graduates and does just fine without public tax support. We understand that not all programs are designed to focus on bench jewelry skills, nor should they. But then, there are lots and lots of Revere Academy graduates who swim very well in the "art" end of the pool too.<br />
<br />
I agree wholeheartedly with you when you state that "funding often goes to programs that prep students for Industry's needs, not the needs of culture, self-expression, intellectual discovery, and spiritual growth". The real point is that these are not mutually exclusive concepts. To the demise of many University arts programs - they are treated as such. I’ve been graduate in sculptu…tag:crafthaus.ning.com,2010-11-04:2104389:Comment:1492252010-11-04T13:10:49.829ZAna Albuquerquehttps://crafthaus.ning.com/profile/AnaAlbuquerque
I’ve been graduate in sculpture at School of Fine Arts from Lisbon, Portugal.<br />
Just as Kate the program approach were not for business, but after working 20 years in this area I have tried different approach to the work. Work in a factory, To make some models and sell it to the factory, and it didn´t work.<br />
We work with a method that is near to investigator, it takes time, some times a long time… and the factory is not able to can afford it. This is not a critical to the way of working of this…
I’ve been graduate in sculpture at School of Fine Arts from Lisbon, Portugal.<br />
Just as Kate the program approach were not for business, but after working 20 years in this area I have tried different approach to the work. Work in a factory, To make some models and sell it to the factory, and it didn´t work.<br />
We work with a method that is near to investigator, it takes time, some times a long time… and the factory is not able to can afford it. This is not a critical to the way of working of this manufactures, or even the way that they have to make money.<br />
A lot of times I wonder what does happen that make a lot of people go on working with out being really paid, and it happens not only in jewelry but also with contemporary or experimental music. Way don’t we stop, and trie to do something more economical rentable? A lot of Portuguese and European contemporary jelwery maker as the same problem, mostly they can not live exclusively from this kind of work. Perhaps is not a mater of money. We are not at first instance working for money, we are working because we reach one intuitive knowledge about us, about others and about the world. And this does not fit in this world that every thing as a price/ cost. Is almost asking to some one,why is he praying if no one is going to pay for it, it is a different knowledge.<br />
There are other areas of knowledge that also are being not valorised in our days, everything that can not make money, so we privilege science.<br />
This thinking way does not apologies that the universities don’t need to teach business or rather we don’t need money. But that if we specialise ourself in this specific area it will be rather difficult that most of the people know your work, or wanted to have your work, or can afford your work having a good ratios hour/euro.<br />
Visibility, explain, making other opportunities to experiment, educate sensibility it is the way to promote what we share.